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| − | An interesting thing about these legs, if they're accurate (found much of it on a qblog post) - I'd say legs 2,3,4,5,6,7 and 8 are pretty much all majority N21 these days. Even the top of leg 1 - Bernice Hansen - is N21. Some of 10 (Jake Funk) is there too.
| + | ==Article re-written on March 31, 2012== |
| − | --[[User:IBOFightback|IBOFightback]] 16:18, 12 November 2007 (CST)
| + | A new version was created using the Amagram recognitions as well as articles, books, tapes and correspondence with Diamonds and international IBOs. The North American business is well covered. However, the international lines of sponsorship need verification. It is believed for example that Maria Schleipfer & Willi Steiner is sponsored by Hans & Olga Weibl who is sponsored by Max Schwarz, but the LOS is too complicated because of many international businesses that IBOs may have.--[[User:SP75|SP75]] 11:56, 31 March 2012 (EEST) |
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| − | ===JaRi legs===
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| − | Considering the Nutrilite acquisition happened in 1972, we can simply determine which legs were JaRi legs (recognized in pre-1972 Amagrams). Here are some well known Diamonds and above who reportedly were involved in Amway before the acquisition.
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| − | :Vince & Alice Gaffey were featured on 1970 Sounds of the Soaring Seventies LP as speakers (Diamonds at that time) -> confirmed JaRi downline.
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| − | :Bill & Valree Nichols - featured on 1968 International Convention LP (Diamond at that time) - confirmed JaRi downline.
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| − | :Bill & Joan Laing - featured on 1968 LP (Gold Ruby Directs at that time) - confirmed JaRi downline.
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| − | :Charles & Marian Jordan - featured on 1968 LP (Gold Ruby Directs at that time) - confirmed JaRi downline.
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| − | :Dick & Bunny Marks - featured on 1969 International Convention LP (Emerald at that time) - confirmed JaRi downline.
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| − | :John & Pat Hendrickson, Dallas & Betty Beaird were recognized as new Diamonds in Aug 1970 and Oct 1970 issues of Amagram, respectively - confirmed JaRi downline.
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| − | :Dusty & Betty Owens were recognized as new Diamonds in Oct 1970, featured on 1969 LP (Emeralds at that time) -> confirmed JaRi downline.
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| − | :Art & Ollie Charlton - recognized as new Crowns in Nov 1970 -> confirmed JaRi downline.
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| − | :Wayne & Kay Beaird - recognized as new Diamonds in Oct 1970 -> confirmed JaRi downline.
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| − | :Chuck & Jean Strehli - recognized as new Diamonds in Dec 1970, featured on 1968 LP (Gold Ruby Direct at that time) -> confirmed JaRi downline.
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| − | :Stan & Ruth Evans - recognized as Double Diamonds in June 1971 Amagram, featured on 1968 LP (Gold Emerald Direct at that time) - confirmed JaRi downline.
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| − | :Roger & Ruth Krause - featured on 1968 LP (Double Diamond at that time) - confirmed JaRi downline.
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| − | Remember that there could be more "legs" than 6. Some of them could have a common upline who was sponsored by JaRi and has not qualified as a Diamond.--[[User:SP75|SP75]] 21:10, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
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| − | ::: Not ''quite'' so simple! Gaffey's for example are Maaskant downline, '''not''' JaRi. A member of Strehli's upline is my source for them not being JaRi, so something odd going on there. I'll make further enquiries. --[[User:IBOFightback|IBOFightback]] 22:45, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
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| − | :::: Huh, this is very strange. Jerry & Sharyn Webb stated in [http://www.ftc.gov/os/comments/businessopprule/522418-09482.pdf their comments for FTC] that they started their business with Amway Corp. in 1969. At that time, Nutrilite and Amway were two separate corporations. So unless some leg transfers took place during acquisition, it is impossible for them (and their upline) to be anywhere else. Is your "Strehli" source credible? Also, what is the source for Gaffeys being in Maaskant downline? Gaffeys started their Nutrilite distributorship in 1950 (one year after JaRi) and in 1959 converted it to Amway distributorship. I cannot understand how they can be in another Maaskant leg than JaRi.--[[User:SP75|SP75]] 08:14, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
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| − | :::::What's hard to understand about Gaffey? Maaskant and his 3 legs transferred to Amway in 1959. One of those legs was JaRi, one was Gaffey. As for Webb's/Strehli's etc, apparently what happened was a lot of Nutrilite distributors quit in the changeover, and JaRi, on at least one occasion, transferred one of their legs to a transferring Nutrilite distributor. So Strehli etc were part of a JaRi leg, but were transferred to one of the Nutrilite legs! Oh, and apparently when Amway began JaRi only had 3 legs. Other legs from Nutrilite that transferred in 1959 and were not downline of Rich & Jay in Nutrilite went frontline to Amway. The question is - which legs?? And did Rich & Jay add more personal legs after Amway began? --[[User:IBOFightback|IBOFightback]] 12:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
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| − | :::::Oh, and 5 legs came to Amway when Amway bought Nutrilite. So with start of Amway we have Maaskant with 3 legs, one of which is JaRi with 3 legs. Amway itself apparently now has 12 legs. Maaskant is one. 5 transferred from Nutrilite in 72. So there are 6 other frontline Amway legs (which don't include either Maaskant or JaRi legs). However, since JaRi became Amway Corp, perhaps all 3 JaRi legs count towards the total of 12?--[[User:IBOFightback|IBOFightback]] 12:35, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
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| − | ::::::Rich DeVos stated: "When we acquired the Nutrilite company, Amway was pretty well established. We had been in the Nutrilite business, and when we started Amway, the only people in Amway were in our line of sponsorship. At a later point we acquired Nutrilite and brought them in and the question was where do they fit in the line of sponsorship. And I can tell you one thing that happened along with many others, cause we had a committee working on how to blend them, how to restore wherever we could the original line of sponsorship. And one of the things we did was we placed our sponsor who - Amway's up and running and we're going and he's still peddling Nutrilite - we can bring him in under us so we get another leg. No, he came in and we placed him above us."
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| − | ::::::That means that Maaskant wasn't transfered to Amway in 1959, but during the acquisition (1972). So the Gaffeys had to be in JaRi downline when they transfered their Nutrilite distributorship into Amway one.--[[User:SP75|SP75]] 13:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
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| − | Blah! all too hard! :-) --[[User:IBOFightback|IBOFightback]] 17:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
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| − | :where is that DeVos quote from? I'm guessing there were folk in both Amway and Nutrilite and when they merged this committee had to sort it all out. --[[User:IBOFightback|IBOFightback]] 17:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
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| − | :: LTS 1998, Orlando.--[[User:SP75|SP75]] 22:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
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| − | :::Some interesting additions to the puzzle [http://www.amwaytalk.com/general-f2/los-loa-t899-20.html#p10501 here on AmwayTalk]. It seems Stonelake et.al are in the Jack Maaskant leg of Neil Maaskant. The question is when this happened, they may have transferred post nutrilite takeover. Some other interesting stuff in that thread to. There's apparently a guy called Fuller above Neil Maaskant.--[[User:IBOFightback|IBOFightback]] 13:16, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
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| − | ===Crown Ambassadors===
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| − | wow - we've placed some 36 crown ambassadors now! I'm impressed :-) --[[User:IBOFightback|IBOFightback]] 13:59, 12 December 2007 (CST)
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| − | [[Nusshold, Hans & Eva]] in infobox are sponzored by Anja Schwartz, that mean 1. Jari leg, but in JaRi legs is listed in 2. leg
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| − | I don't understand what's mean second sponzor in their infobox. I see this in more infobox in N21. What is that mean? Their busines were sold to [[Leonard, Norman & Glenda]] ??? Or in other markets having different sponzor?--[[User:Dusyk|Dusyk]] 06:55, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
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| − | When you are internationally sponsored, you have both international and foster sponsors. Apparently, Nusshold's foster sponsor is Anja Schwarz and the international sponsors are Norman & Glenda Leonard.--[[User:SP75|SP75]] 08:28, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
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| − | :Yes I forgot this possibility. I think the opposit is true. Anja is international, and Norma & Glenda is foster sponsor. Or I have confusion about this. :( --[[User:Dusyk|Dusyk]] 10:22, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
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| − | :Second possibility is the [[Nusshold, Hans & Eva]] were in past time affilated with austrian Schwartz Organization and now is affilated back in N21 where are their true sponsor. But information in [[Schwarz, Max]] the [[Nusshold, Hans & Eva]] are frontline to Max Schwartz is bad.--[[User:Dusyk|Dusyk]] 11:49, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
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| − | ::When [[Nusshold, Hans & Eva]] started their business 1985 in Austria, their foster was [[Schwarz, Max]] und Marianne, internationally their sponsor is N. & G. Leonard. Afther the death of Marianne, Max transfered his (then Double Diamond) austrian business to his daughter Anja and her (then) husband and they ended the year with qualifying crown. Shorty afer starting in Austria, the Nussholds startet an german business to, fostersponsored by [[Schwarz, Max]], internationally sponsored by their own austrian business.
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| − | At this time there was no N21 in Europe. The biggest leg of Dornan, Jim & Nancy was the 1983 Diamondship of [[Böhnke, Bodo & Gisela]] with some 5 downline Diamonds, working with [[Müller-Meerkatz, Dr. Peter & Eva]] till the kickoff of N21 in Europe like the Nusshold did the same with Schwarz'. .--[[User:Mastermind|Mastermind]] 22:24, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
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| − | ::Hey, Mastermind! You have to be an Amway employee to know these details ;-) :-) I am really glad we have you here.--[[User:SP75|SP75]] 06:44, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
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| − | :: Thanks, but i dont think that employees have that kind of information. But as an german ABO knowing all those people s easy.
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| − | ===JaRi?===
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| − | I'm not convinced these legs are actually downline of JaRi? As mentioned elsewhere. JaRi has an upline, Maaskant, who apparently was still qualifying as a Founders Emerald in 1998. Also reading the FTC v Amway case, it mentions that DeVos and Van Andel as well as owning Amway, have "one of the largest" Amway distributorships - which clearly means there's plenty of Amway outside JaRi. I'm wondering if perhaps JaRi are at the top of leg 1 and the rest are separate Amway legs?--[[User:IBOFightback|IBOFightback]] 16:40, 2 January 2008 (CST)
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| − | :Rich DeVos stated that they had ended up with approximately 6 good legs. As all legs on amwaywiki contain at least one Diamond, I assume that those would be counted as "good" legs. So some of those legs on amwaywiki probably have different upline. Another problem is that the line of sponsorship can be splitted where international sponsoring takes place.
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| − | :Rich have also repeatedly stated they do not sponsor people (I assume that his saying "The Corporation does not recruit" means "JaRi does not recruit"), so unless they inherited some of their downline's businesses, there is no way for them to have so many Diamond legs...
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| − | :I think the only way to trace the original LOS is to go deep into the history, search all the Amagrams for Direct Distributor recognitions and find out who the original upline Direct was. Very hard work.--[[User:SP75|SP75]] 17:54, 2 January 2008 (CST)
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| − | :Mid 90s corporate representatif mentionned that JaRi stacked their original sponsor above them to keep their nutrilite LOS --[[User:Caro|Caro]] 10:30am 5 juin 2008 (EST)
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| − | ::Neal Maaskant was placed as JaRi's sponsor. It still has at least 1 active legs outside of JaRi. There were also legs that moved across to Amway with the purchase of Nutrilite. I think at that time JaRi may also have actually become Amway. No idea how Maaskant fits in to that! --[[User:IBOFightback|IBOFightback]] 18:28, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
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| − | :::Maaskant must have at least 2 other legs - his distributorship reached the level of Founders Emerald in 1997. I remember Rich DeVos said one time "even those lines of sponsorship that end up with Amway Corporation, we deduct 3% [bonus] and pass it to the Company, because we don't want to be accused of doing something for somebody we don't do for anybody else." So when we put the pieces together, I think the line of sponsorship goes as follows: Amway > Maaskant > JaRi. Though JaRi was the original name under which Jay & Rich conducted their Nutrilite business from Sept 6, 1949 to November 1963 when JaRi was changed to Amway, that was almost ten years before the acquisition of Nutrilite. If Maaskant was placed "above Rich & Jay" (and we know it is true), I assume that JaRi distributorship was formed again and Maaskant was placed between JaRi and Amway Corporation.--[[User:SP75|SP75]] 20:54, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
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| − | I have heard from more than one source that Rich and Jay weren't ever "Diamonds" because all their business was/is down five (5) legs. Is this inaccurate? --[[User:Bridgett|Bridgett]] 02:57, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
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| − | :Hi Bridgett, Rich DeVos stated numerous times that they had had 6 Direct legs. But of course, back then there was no Diamond level.--[[User:SP75|SP75]] 09:10, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
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| − | ==relative size==
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| − | On the internet it's generally been a "given truth" that the Bass leg is Amway's largest, but it would appear this is false, and the Stonelake leg is the biggest? --[[User:IBOFightback|IBOFightback]] 14:22, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
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A new version was created using the Amagram recognitions as well as articles, books, tapes and correspondence with Diamonds and international IBOs. The North American business is well covered. However, the international lines of sponsorship need verification. It is believed for example that Maria Schleipfer & Willi Steiner is sponsored by Hans & Olga Weibl who is sponsored by Max Schwarz, but the LOS is too complicated because of many international businesses that IBOs may have.--SP75 11:56, 31 March 2012 (EEST)
